CV Hustle
A Podcast created to educate, inform & inspire entrepreneurship here in our Coachella Valley.
We will be talking to some of the best & brightest entrepreneurs in the Coachella Valley about how they started their journey in entrepreneurship.
CV Hustle
Ep #15-The Legal Side of Success: From SC Grad to Valley Titan-The Amir Afsar Story
Amir Afshar, a prominent Coachella Valley attorney, shares his unconventional journey from USC rejection to becoming a respected business and real estate lawyer with his own practice spanning 16 years.
• Early social media adoption for law practice marketing when traditional advertising was cost-prohibitive
• Turning educational rejection into motivation after being denied USC admission despite meeting requirements
• Balancing immigrant parents' high expectations with personal career aspirations
• Transitioning from working at a small firm to establishing his own successful practice
• Teaching entrepreneurship at Cal State San Bernardino to help students understand business realities
• Volunteering as an auctioneer for local school fundraisers
• Debunking the myth that argumentativeness makes good lawyers, emphasizing problem-solving skills instead
• Explaining the critical difference between technical skills and business acumen for entrepreneurs
• Maintaining separate business and personal finances to preserve corporate legal protections
• Finding creative outlets beyond legal practice to express different aspects of personality
Find Amir on social media or at AfsarLaw.com for legal assistance with business and real estate matters.
What is going on? Everyone? I'm Robert Mraz and this is Veena Mraz and this is CV Hustle, the podcast dedicated to support and inform local entrepreneurship here in our Coachella Valley, and the goal on this show, guys, is really to bring you the titans of industry here in the Coachella Valley, and today's guest really does fit that bill. He's not only the best lawyer this side of the windmills, he's also a law professor. He's one of the best at doing it here in the Valley. Today's guest, mr Amir Afshar.
Speaker 2:Thank you for coming on in hey, good to see you. You can do my introduction anytime. Like big titan of industry. I like that one. I know, we do it big here. We do it big Five-five. Not often I get Titan of anything.
Speaker 1:Titan of industry. Let's do it. Let's do it.
Speaker 3:Titan of industry From now on. You heard it, that's right. You've kept us out of a lot of trouble, you earned it. That's no easy task with this one right here, and you have a lot of my money.
Speaker 2:Well.
Speaker 3:I don't know. I want it back.
Speaker 2:I think I should have more of it, frankly.
Speaker 3:No, you're awesome, we love it. Okay, so we've been trying to get you to come down here. In fact, I feel like you should autograph my arm or something Like yes, he's here, right.
Speaker 1:Right, I mean, it is a local celebrity site.
Speaker 2:I don't know about that. I might have had a couple feet in the you know social media fire earlier than maybe most people, let's just say. And the funny thing is, now I'm not doing nearly as much of it as I used to be doing, and so a lot of people ask me hey, what's going on? Or why aren't you doing it now? But you know, for me the social media stuff was a necessity, right, like a lot of people today they're getting into it. I don't know it's accessible to everybody. Now, right, like you and I talked before we even got on this thing about, like, the cost of setting up the studio and kind of the expenses associated with it. So when I was doing Unbillable, my vlog or whatever and the videos are still posted on YouTube, you can check it out.
Speaker 2:Shameless plug, hold on. The funny thing about the shameless plug is there's nothing posted. I love it. I don't think I have a new video in over four years now. So there's really nothing for me to plug. It's just sort of sitting out there in the you know YouTube sphere, whatever you want to call that right the world, but for me there wasn't a way for me to create advertising in a cost effective manner when I had a brand new law firm. So I had a brand new law firm and you have some big spending attorneys, attorneys that, frankly, aren't even in the space that I am Like I do business and real estate and most of the advertisers you see, like call them on the sevens. Our buddy, walter Clark, he does personal injury. He's not even doing the same type of work I do, oh my gosh so. But most people just know that name, know that phone number, and so he has like an enormous net, right? So how do you kind of get some position in the marketplace for yourself when you have a budget of roughly zero?
Speaker 3:Well, and stand out. Stand out from the rest, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, stand out from the rest is part of it, but a big, huge piece of it is what does it cost you to post on Instagram? What does it cost you to post on social media? And, quite frankly, there's a lot of eyes there, right? Oh yeah, so if you can't afford to do the traditional newspaper, you can't afford to do the traditional television ad billboard. Those are things out here, right? At least the internet. And again, I'm not talking today, it's obvious a little bit, but back then I got a lot of like you're crazy for doing this stuff, but the idea. Frankly, I used to watch a lot of Gary Vee.
Speaker 3:I love Gary Vee.
Speaker 2:And Gary Vee, especially back then, used to tell you like right into the camera, don't listen to what I'm saying, watch what I'm doing. Yeah, and I was like, okay, I can hear that I could do that and so I'm a creative person. The law practice is not very creative. I need a way to advertise myself and sort of an idea was born that I would just do, kind of a Gary V style vlog, shout out to Gary V if he's listening, so you want to know what I got from that conversation. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Amir is the Bitcoin of crypto. Wow.
Speaker 1:No, no, I'd rather be like a you know what?
Speaker 2:I don't think anybody knows yet. If Bitcoin is, I mean Dude how do you know money? Listen, I don't even own one coin. I own no crypto of any sort. That doesn't mean you shouldn't?
Speaker 3:I'm not saying that to people.
Speaker 2:But I'm conservative by nature. Like I might own like stock in this bad boy because I know what they sell. I know how they make their money. If I don't understand it, then I won't. I don't usually put my money in, generally speaking, all right, not to say I have friends that have made a lot of money on the bitcoin stuff. I actually remember a good friend of mine I'm not going to say his name, but told me to buy a bitcoin when it was like a thousand dollars a coin. He straight up told me like hey, amir, you're like a lot more successful than I am. You got a little bit of money. If you could just put a couple grand into this, I promise you it'll be something big one day and I mean real talk. I told him like hey, I don't think I'm interested in that. And then I in my own mind, I thought to myself the reason I got money to do stuff like this and I don't do stupid stuff like that and I don't even know.
Speaker 2:I know he has some bitcoin the guy I'm talking about, whose name will remain nameless for this conversation but I don't know how many he has, and god bless the guy. He was right, was wrong.
Speaker 1:I had the same conversation a couple of years ago and shooting myself in the foot. You know, for that one man I should have took the leap man, because you'd be up a hundredfold right now.
Speaker 2:Listen, of course, and then like just like I always use Vegas as an example If you go to Vegas and you win, you tell that story a thousand times. You go to Vegas and you lose, you basically don't tell anybody.
Speaker 1:You're like oh, I had fun. It was cool, yeah, you know so this is the same thing.
Speaker 2:Anybody who made a ton of money off of bitcoin is going to talk about it a hundred times. Anybody who didn't make any money off of it or who bought something like that hawk to a girl's coin and lost all their money they're not going to talk about it very much.
Speaker 2:All of a sudden, so you know you got to be careful. When you listen to that kind of stuff, people tend to cheerlead a little bit. I mean that's in all walks of life, right, but in the Bitcoin area kind of in particular. But me personally I don't understand it, so I kind of stay away from it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was always my contention. It's like what is it, you know? Like what is this? What am I buying, you know? But I've since been informed, but I still haven't pulled the trigger. I have people yelling the time that I'm an idiot, and they're probably right.
Speaker 2:I mean it's just the boom and bust nature of the thing kind of scares me. Look, you can't win all of the things all of the time and I've just accepted that that it looks risky to me and I might not get into it yeah, so make money the old-fashioned way in dollars.
Speaker 1:You know, I guess still putting your money under the mattress, okay, I?
Speaker 3:have a question, let's under the mattress. Let's move along. I want to know because when we first met you, uh-oh, no, no, it's nothing bad, but you kind of we were like, how did you get started in this? Because I think you should be a stand-up comedian. So I want to know, how did this come to be? Because you're a SC guy, right, go Trojans, that's right. Fight Trojans. So how did this all happen? I want to know, yeah.
Speaker 3:So this all when did you go to high school and then you went to college and did you always want to be a lawyer. Did you love reading? I love reading.
Speaker 2:No. So all right, to some extent I have parents who are very serious about education, right, my mom and dad are immigrants to the United States. In the 70s, before I was born, in the early 70s, they were here. My mom was kind of updating her education she's a physician and my father was just kind of working, I guess kind of like side jobs, basically you know odds and end type jobs and then kind of working at a restaurant, in particular when they came to the United States. Men type jobs and then kind of working at a restaurant, in particular when they came to the United States. My father in Iran was an officer in the military, has his master's in agricultural engineering. Like I said, my mother's a physician. So both of my parents are educated, or highly educated, I should say. And so for them. Like I just always use the example of high school, graduation was never thought of as a big deal. My parents made no comment whatsoever. It was treated like the equivalent of like a fifth grade graduation. Yeah, it was expected of you.
Speaker 2:No, trophy for you, it was nothing to be celebrated, it was just standard. Everybody graduates high school to be expected College. You graduate from a university. Now that's where we're going to have some kind of celebration, because that's where you've done something, then you're worthy, then you're worthy. Yeah, you're worthy of it, right? So education was always really big.
Speaker 2:I just actually last night was talking to a friend of mine. We're raising our own kids, so it's kind of crazy the things that you pick up and the things you try not to pick up from your own parents, if you will. But my parents were kind of A's. Only you got A's or you got punished, basically. And so it doesn't mean I always got A's, it means sometimes I got punished.
Speaker 2:But the moral of the story is the standards were extremely high and they were kept that way, sort of famously, at my law school graduation I thank my mom for always keeping her high heel shoe in my back, because my mom is a pusher and a presser and she's probably right now saying I'm not doing this right. She's watching this kind of thing. That Probably right now saying I'm not doing this right. You know she's watching this kind of thing. That's just who she is. I love her for it and I wouldn't have it any other way. But so education, you know, to kind of go back to that was just a fundamental. You're going to do this, no matter what.
Speaker 3:But wanting to be a lawyer like or like were you wanting, I didn't want to.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to be a doctor.
Speaker 3:OK, you didn't have to be an ob-gyn, but you had to be a doctor.
Speaker 2:So if you weren't a doctor or a lawyer, what else would have been acceptable? Or nothing else? No, no, I don't think there's anything. I mean, I don't think lawyer, necessarily, is even sometimes acceptable. Right, my parents wanted me to be a doctor, they wanted my sister to be a doctor. They want you to be a doctor. They want both of you to be a doctor.
Speaker 3:Tell them you were saved my life.
Speaker 2:No, no, I mean no, no, I appreciate that and I tell my mom all the time I have a doctorate degree. It's just in jurisprudence it's not the same. But you know, that's just the truth of it. I think my father, god rest his soul, was a little more open to other things, right? But mom, it's doctors, doctors first. And you know, I get it. I got respect for it. But yeah, it's just, I didn't want to deal with blood, I didn't want to deal with any of that stuff.
Speaker 2:I got my hardest classes, my worst grades were science. It was kind of a sign that maybe medicine wasn't it for me. Of course, having a mother who's a physician, she had me volunteer like all the time in the hospital. I hated it all the time. I resisted it all the time. So it's kind of maybe just I knew that wasn't for me. I really wanted to be a sports agent. I had an opportunity, you know, kind of early on to meet some higher up sports agents, go to a couple of things where they spoke at and I was informed that basically, like four sports agents eat steak and the other 400 eat like McDonald's in an airport somewhere, and I didn't like the way that sounded and so like that just didn't fit for me, like I didn't want to live my life on the road or like I hate to travel, kind of generally speaking.
Speaker 1:So it just didn't fit me.
Speaker 2:I think that might have been a little bit of the Jerry Maguire movie Sure, and the fact that I love sports in general, but I'm not tall enough to be a basketball player, big enough to be a football player, fast enough for to be anything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but you got the personality to get a deal, yeah, so exactly.
Speaker 2:That's kind of what I was thinking. I got the brain side of it. I had the privilege of actually taking classes at USC with Carson Palmer. Before I went to USC, I actually went to University of Arizona and dropped out because I didn't like it While I was there named Mike Bibby, if you know basketball you might know that name.
Speaker 2:And so I got kind of a front row seat to some of the. You know what the next level of sports would look like, if you will, because Carson Palmer, his senior year, was, you know, heisman Trophy winner, you know leading the top program and yeah.
Speaker 2:Mike Bibby. His freshman year took U of A to the national championship. I had agents and you know those types of characters knocking and stuff around so I got a very good you know view, if you will, of kind of those you know. Not that I got to be in any of those meetings, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2:No, but I mean, you heard about it, you could see the like moons circling around the planets that these guys were, and you already knew that they were going to make it in the next level early, early in the college. They just stood up early, early in the college right, they just stood up.
Speaker 2:They had that right. Palmer may be a little less than Bibby, but Palmer had all the tools and all the kind of physical characteristics. So when he put it all together I don't think that many people were really like surprised by it right, he was the golden boy.
Speaker 3:So when you went to USC, that's where you met your wife.
Speaker 2:That is where I met the missus. Yes, I met the missus at usc, that's true.
Speaker 3:I did everything I could to not, to to like, not make that happen, bullshit you told me that you were like I'm gonna put a ring on it as soon as I can, so she can't well okay, so there's, there's two sides under contract, yeah, get her under contract.
Speaker 2:So there's, there's two sides of this right. Like it's one of those things and most men will agree but not admit it. It's like you chase this person, you chase this woman because you're really into her, you like her, you know beautiful, great personality, you kind of see motherly qualities, like that's the next level. In my opinion, that's what I maybe thought with her might be the thing. I don't think I'm supposed to reference that hand symbol. But you see these kind of positive qualities and you chase them, but like you kind of feel too young to get married. So the next thing, you know, it's like I like to use the phrase I chased her until she caught me Right, like I really pursued her but then in the end I was like almost trying to resist getting married. I was like I'm not you know, I'm not done with law school.
Speaker 2:I'm not done with law school. I don't know if we should be like we've been together for so long there's all these other girls that I need a chance at the title right.
Speaker 3:I still got my running shoes on.
Speaker 2:I really hope she's not watching any of this nobody will see this. But no, I had no plans to meet, like you know, anything long term at college. But you know it was all about I had a. Let me go back a little bit. So I went to university Arizona. I hated it. I dropped out. I went to junior college Harbor college, took a double load, got into USC.
Speaker 2:And then it was like no messing around. I kind of felt like straight disrespect when I didn't get into USC out of high school, like I, I had all the requirements on paper to get in and then I didn't get in and uh, I kind of took it on the chin. Uh, I was one of those kids high school senior year wearing USC year. I was so sure I was going Right, and so it just was a real, real blow to like the personal ego yeah.
Speaker 2:The ego and just who you are Right. Next thing, I'm at U of a. I'm trying to rep the U of A, get into it like, okay, I like Arizona, this is cool, and I just couldn't do it. And then it came to like you know sports. To come back to it next, you know, it's like I hear that we're gonna play USC at something. I'm like, oh, I'm supposed to like root against USC. Now that's gonna be tough. And then, to be honest, there was a couple days in a row where I just really didn't feel comfortable there. I didn't really like it. Martin Luther King didn't have a holiday in the state of Arizona in 1996. And they adopted it and I just felt like this wasn't the spot for me. It just didn't feel right. I missed LA.
Speaker 2:I'm a kid born and raised like not born but raised in the South Bay, torrance, lomita, all the way to Palos Verdes. That's where I went to high school, palos Verdes, peninsula and so I really wanted to let's just take life by the horns. And so I dropped out of U of A, like against my parents' wishes, straight up. My parents thought I ruined my life and went to junior college and took it really seriously, got into USC, got straight A's, so there wasn't gonna be like a question for the transfer. And then when I got to USC, I took it super seriously because I didn't want to do the same thing for law school. Right, it's like I knew I wanted to law school, so let's get really good grades.
Speaker 2:I applied to eight law schools. I didn't apply to all the best ones, like stanford or whatever, but the eight I applied to I got into all eight. I chose right onto the law school and then you know, from there, it's just that was the turning point for me, right. It's like, um, I worked really hard, I thought I could achieve this thing. I applied. I thought for sure they would want me. Who wouldn't want me? And then to get rejected. That was a real wake-up call like I'm never letting that happen again I love it.
Speaker 3:It's the fuel that burns right. It's like, ah, look every villain has a story.
Speaker 2:Every. I say it straight out right, like every villain has that story. Or, you know, you could say hero too. Right, every superhero has that like background story. And for me, um, it really was I. The day I got rejected, uh, from usc, I sat at the mailbox for four hours.
Speaker 2:I didn't come back inside the house I didn't even I actually technically my my uh mom and I mean I get a little when I talk about this, but my parents never, I never told them I didn't get in. I actually never, ever said that to them, I just never. Like my sister was is seven years older than me, so she started asking me, like hey, whatever happened to your usc application? And I would just tell her hey, just drop, just drop it, you're like shut it.
Speaker 2:But I never actually verbally told my parents I didn't get in To this day. Well, no, they know You're all surprised, but no. I don't think I ever actually-.
Speaker 3:Didn't they tell them the?
Speaker 1:story that you were hiding that for a couple years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, they know now yeah, I gave the keynote address address for One Future, coachella Valley, a few years ago, okay, and they wanted me to talk just to give a story about success to like a bunch of college students that had scholarships, and I decided to tell my story about how, you know, I had all these great grades. I went to University of Arizona school Most people are super proud to go to, and I was not proud to be there and I had parents telling me just keep going to class, it's fine, it doesn't matter, just fine, it doesn't matter, just get your degree, that's what matters. And you know, if you don't respect the diploma, if you don't respect the name at the top of it, like what's it worth Right and so that for me that wasn't going to work.
Speaker 2:That wasn't going to work. And then it happened to be at the time, arizona and USC being in the same sports league, being the PAC 10 or PAC 12, that wasn't going to fly. I was going to have a hard time rooting against the Trojans Right.
Speaker 1:You're like no way man. I've been growing up with this.
Speaker 2:Funny thing is, when I applied to USC with my junior college grades, I got a bunch of like scholarship applications to like better, highly higher ranked schools, but by then it was like nah, nah, like I want to go to USC.
Speaker 3:So it was a straight USC.
Speaker 2:Well we don't got a football team, so we always root for USC. Yeah, no, that's. You know, two of my best friends went to UCLA. So, like you know, my love for USC is strong. But I'm not ridiculous Like I want my kids to go to a good school. If it happens to be like Stanford, so be it, a problem with it. But if they think they're going to get me in some you know, whatever other school gear Not happening, you're not wearing the Stanford tree, huh, Unless it's a Firebird shirt.
Speaker 3:Well, the Firebirds, they don't play.
Speaker 2:You know, that's different, they're not playing against USC and that's just the local gig you got to represent the town.
Speaker 3:Speaking of local. How did you come her family's here?
Speaker 2:she's a palm desert high school grad, no shit. And coincidentally, at the time my dad had a kidney transplant and my parents came out here like snowbirds from la, of course, to recover. Yeah, my parents had a like a getaway place out here, a small spot that they kind of slowly then got a bigger spot in a bigger spot because they were spending more time here. Yeah, uh, and then, uh, after my dad had his kidney transplant, uh, he had his recovery here.
Speaker 2:He lived quite a bit like 10 more years after it and everything but, then you know they lived here full-time after that so so, you guys, but it was it was chasing her. It was definitely. It was a good excuse. I wanted to live. I wanted to live in redondo beach. I wanted to live by the water.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, right until you see the prices it costs to live there, you're like I was like I'm gonna go, I'm gonna be a lawyer, I'm gonna have a beachfront, whatever.
Speaker 2:I had this big in my mind, a big plan, but none of it happened.
Speaker 1:So when you chased your girl down here, were you at that point still thinking I'm going to go work for somebody with this law degree? Am I going to open up? How did you kind of come to the decision I'm just going to do this myself and head on myself?
Speaker 2:Well, I had pretty good opportunities in LA because of connections my mom had, quite frankly. So I left some kind of good opportunities behind to come out here. So at that point, yeah, it was just a matter of waiting to get my bar results. And then I figured I'd work for someone I always knew I wanted to do my own thing. I always knew I wanted to have my own office, and that's because my mom had her own medical office. So I just thought that was attractive to me to be your own boss.
Speaker 2:And so the summer internships while I was in law school I worked for a law practice that was one, two, three guys, like a small office. I always kind of kept it in small, small offices. And when I came out here I got a job at a small office. So part of that was because I figured I could kind of pick, pick and choose the high, the, the, the, the good qualities, the high spots, as I was going to say right when the money is right Well, not just where the money is, but how to treat people like how to treat clients, how to treat staff Like.
Speaker 2:I just think when you're a 500-person law firm, you don't necessarily have to know everybody's name, right? But when you're three guys you definitely need to know everybody or whatever right. Even now it's just me and Marlene, so you know.
Speaker 3:Marlene and I. So when you took that job with those guys, were you doing the same type of law or like, can a lawyer do? Right, you have to kind of choose a lane, don't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean when you come out of law school, you could do. I mean, generally speaking, that's where you choose your lane, but if at any moment, you want to hit the turn signal and shift, you don't have to do anything to do that. You just have to say you're doing this now or whatever. Right, um, those guys? Uh. So in in my internships, like in law school, I worked for a very well-known medical malpractice attorney. It's kind of funny Cause my mom's like what the um being a physician someone who sues doctors like my God.
Speaker 2:What did we do, right? Um, but so you know. So that was just a good opportunity, if you will. And then out here again. I wanted to get in the courtroom. I didn't want to do criminal law. I had a very good internship in the LADA's office prosecuting preliminary hearings, and that was enough to make me realize I didn't want to do the criminal stuff. When I came out here, I was still interviewing at the Riverside DA's office, but they had a change of the main DA from Grover Trask to Rod Pacheco.
Speaker 2:I didn't really like Rod Pacheco that much. No disrespect, I was young, I didn't know much about him. What I knew about him wasn't the same as the guy who was leaving, who I did kind of like, and so I tried to turn to the private sector. And then I was told like, hey, try to go into something that you're actually interested in instead of chasing the courtroom. Like almost most arenas of law will get to the courtroom. It's just a matter of what you're interested in, and I was interested in real estate. I'd seen people kind of buy and sell and invest things like that. I've been exposed to it a little bit, and so I thought real estate would be cool.
Speaker 2:And then the law firm Rover Law Firm. I don't have a problem saying the name. Shout out Mike and Steven. I think Steven's in Texas now but Mike's still around working at the burger foundation. He's on the board over there. So shout out to Mike, especially giving me my first shot. No disrespect, I got a lot of love from Mike but he's not practicing law, so I don't have to worry about it. Makes it easier to kind of person and that's like her brainchild, or a little baby bird, if you will, although it's kind of like a full-blown bird at this point Not really a baby anymore, it's a hawk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they're doing great. I mean, they're outstanding people, wonderful family. But he gave me my first shot and it worked out well.
Speaker 3:So he did real estate.
Speaker 2:He did real estate and construction. He's a contractor who had a law degree and so he did construction mostly. I like the real estate side of it a little bit more than the construction, so I kind of was always pushing a little bit more towards like agents, brokers, investors those kinds of things, and a lot of that has to do with construction as well. So they did fit together and so his firm was mostly like construction and business. And then when I eventually opened my own law firm 16 plus years ago, it's kind of fun to say right, Wow, 16 years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did real estate business. And then, as I say, the business of real estate is construction, so I still do construction business.
Speaker 3:And then, as I say, the business of real estate is construction, so I still do construction too. Wow. So I have a question Is there like a couple of real estate cases that kind of stick out and like can you share some some?
Speaker 1:experience, some wacky stories.
Speaker 3:I'm sure you got, I mean you know you can't get too detailed.
Speaker 1:There's gotta be something that kind of.
Speaker 2:I don't know, not necessarily. Let's say it's's not all, it's all real estate related. There was a case I had nothing to do with that I found really interesting uh, which was uh, a realtor who was taking his lady back to the open house, like his. He was the listing agent for the home sure, and he didn't know there were cameras inside and he was taking his own personal lady back to the flop house or whatever. But it's not a flop house, it's a listing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so with cameras, so again that wasn't local.
Speaker 2:I don't want to put anyone last. I mean, that kind of stuff might've happened, but this story I'm telling is not anybody local. Oh my gosh so it's just a story I heard that was crazy.
Speaker 3:Locally though.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, I have. I have, found's just say, indiscretions outside of the marriage that have led to certain maneuvers by people. I don't know if you're catching what I'm putting down, yeah for sure. So it's just, there's a lot of things, and most of the ones you want me to tell you about, I can't really talk about.
Speaker 1:Can't get the good stuff. You see, I'm like crossing my arms, the body language?
Speaker 2:Why are you shrinking Little, shrinking violet, over here?
Speaker 3:No, but I mean like so what would somebody call you for? Typically for a real estate issue.
Speaker 2:You know it's just problems. I mean, it's just anything. If you're trying to buy a piece of real estate and you feel like it's not closing on time, you don't have a good understanding of what the paperwork says. I mean your agent should be explaining that to you. But if you feel like your agent isn't, the next level is someone like me.
Speaker 2:The difference between an attorney and an agent is an agent gets paid at the closing. So a good agent wants you to get the home or property that you want. A bad agent wants the deal to close so that they get their commission. The lawyer, as the agents love to point out, gets paid whether the deal closes or not. So I don't have a dog in that race. If this is a good deal for you, I'll tell you. If it's a bad deal for you, I'll tell you. Either way, the attorney, so to speak, gets paid. So you get kind of an unbiased viewpoint from the lawyer, Whereas, again, if you have a good agent because there are a lot of good agents out there you'll also get an unbiased viewpoint from your agent.
Speaker 3:However, occasionally there are some agents who put their own self-interest first and again the bad apple kind of is the one everybody talks about, right well, and I think too we we've used you for and like landlord stuff, sure, and that's kind of you know, and I'm just like he's too smart for this stuff, but I don't want to deal with with it and we don't want to deal with this particular tenant, I don't do any eviction stuff, but I do write up the leases, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean lot line disputes happen all the time, Like is this block wall in the right place or the wrong place? Somebody cut down my tree, Like those kinds of things are kind of crazy because trees in California, believe it or not, are very protected and so there's just a number of things. When I bought this house, they told me everything was great. Turns out the shower pan leaks there's mold, got the bid, those kinds of things.
Speaker 3:That's like when we bought this building. Do you want to tell me about?
Speaker 1:that? No, he doesn't. I think he already knows right. Let's just put it like this.
Speaker 3:We ran through this place like 10 minutes because the guy didn't want everybody to know he was selling. Ok, we also couldn't smell the stench.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they had the doors and the windows open and we're like, oh, it's fine.
Speaker 3:It's a great summer day.
Speaker 1:And then you come back when you get the keys You're like, uh-oh, what died in the walls? Oh, my.
Speaker 2:God.
Speaker 1:So, oh, my God, so those are yeah, I get those calls.
Speaker 2:I get those calls for sure. That was horrible.
Speaker 2:You know you also get stuff where, like you know people, they get comfortable with one another. They've done a. Let's say, they did a transaction and they wrote up a big, long contract for the transaction. Everything went smooth. They did a second deal. They use a big contract. Everything went smooth. Now it's a third deal, was going to go away unless we like get this done now, and so there's no paperwork. So now, all of a sudden, there's no paperwork and now something changes. Someone has a you know, something happens in one person's life and they want to move out of town, or they don't want to do this project anymore, or now they need that money for something else. Any number of variables come up and now they go oh wait, we don't even have a contract about this, and then, that's a common phone call I get right.
Speaker 2:After the deal has already been made and after I've already given someone my money or after they've already built the whatever. Now they have questions about how they're going to get paid, how they're going to get their money back, et cetera. Right.
Speaker 3:And then like construction, oh my God. I mean I'm kind of in that industry so I can totally like see a million different ways of how people can get in trouble there.
Speaker 2:Construction. Of course I I you know built this thing in the wrong spot. I built it the wrong way. He doesn't want to pay me for it. It's the wrong color.
Speaker 3:Or the what about the contractor doesn't finish the job?
Speaker 2:And I gave me a ton of, gave a ton of money. Contractor is not even licensed. I gave him a check. I never heard from him again.
Speaker 3:So what do you say? Sorry, right, sorry.
Speaker 2:Well, I always say sorry. I mean, that's kind of your fault, right?
Speaker 3:I mean, there's nothing you can really do?
Speaker 2:or can you? No, no, I mean there's always. I mean I don't want to say there's always something you can do, but there's always something you can do. I mean that is one option, as I mentioned earlier, though I'm five five, so not really the option I choose and I'm not really the option I hope other people choose, because I like my legs, that's true, I like my legs, um no, but you know, obviously there's always something you can do to the extent you can.
Speaker 2:You know, negotiate with the person, try to get some of the money back. A lot of times the other side has a version of events. It's very rare that one side is like 100% right. It's far more.
Speaker 3:I mean with you guys, obviously you're always I was gonna say wait a minute. That's not what you said.
Speaker 1:I could see the vision was turning to stone?
Speaker 2:No, but you know so a lot of times. At least the other side can pretend they have their own point of view, sometimes, right negotiable.
Speaker 3:Sometimes it's not. That's what the court system is for, all right he's, he's talked us off the ledge a couple times. You off the ledge.
Speaker 2:Oh god, you're the one that needs to talk a good lawyer will tell you that the court system is expensive and slow. It's a nuclear option. It should be a last resort, not a first idea absolutely, absolutely, yeah and you got that spice. Yeah, I'm gonna wring his neck, we're gonna sue him, I him. I'm like, well, between those choices, let's sue him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the better of the two. So you've been doing this 16 years, one thing that you've kind of gotten in. I don't know how long you've been doing this, but you've been now teaching law at the local university. Tell us a little bit about that and how that came about. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I've been practicing 20 years, believe it or not right, Check the gray hairs.
Speaker 1:Don't look that old.
Speaker 2:It'll be 20 years oh come on, yeah, I do, I appreciate that. Yeah, I do. Yeah, so 20 years practicing law, believe it or not, and then 16 is how long I've been on my own, my own AFSAR log at my own law office, and then C, the teaching gig. The teaching gig the local school had a, a gentleman who taught a um like law and business kind of like, for this is an undergrad class, by the way is this the one down in india?
Speaker 2:no, no, this is that. This is an undergrad at cal state san bernardino oh, okay, okay, got it street.
Speaker 2:So, um, I started teaching like a management class which was in my mind. It was like the intersection of the real basic intersection of law and business, right Understanding what you need to form a contract, why it should be in writing or shouldn't be in writing, just kind of the real basics of you know, business and law. Do you want to form a corporation? What's the difference between a corporation and LLC? Like those kinds of things right. Again, just real undergrad class, so very kind of surface level right.
Speaker 2:The students will tell you it was in depth and very hard, but from a legal standpoint it was surface level, right Like law school obviously totally different. I did that for about four years. Then COVID came. I did not want to teach online at all. Not only did I teach a class online, but I taught a class to all English as my second language students from, I believe, china, and I believe they were like living in China, like it was foreign exchange students who didn't come because of COVID, and that was impossibly difficult.
Speaker 2:I referred at one point to Donald Trump, as like this is, you know, not not presidential Donald Trump like a business owner, and I said something about him firing an employee and, without me even realizing it, half the students took that phrase to mean pulling out a gun and shooting the employee. Oh, wow. And it's just, it's not cause, it's just a breakdown in the language mixed with this. You know, it's just a breakdown in the language mixed with this.
Speaker 1:You know the idea of what they think America is just guns, and cowboys.
Speaker 2:So for that reason that was so I didn't. After that I was like, okay, no, mas, that's enough for me. I stopped teaching for a few years. This year, the same gentleman named Mike Stoll, who was the head of the management department, is now the head of the entrepreneurship program and he asked me to come back and teach a like um sort of like a small business how to start.
Speaker 2:It's like an entrepreneur's version as opposed, so it's not a lot of law really in this class but it's mostly like how to start and build or what, what you should be aware of when you start and build a small business. That's awesome, man. Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 1:It's only like 12 students, maybe eight, show up. Come on, step up.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you're paying for it. You might as well show up, that's right, they're paying for it, right, but yeah, so it's all about kind of building a how to build or whether you should or shouldn't build. I think a lot of people you know, going back to the kind of the Gary V thing earlier, there's a lot of hype about starting your own business and building your own business. A lot of businesses fail. It's not for everybody. So I think part of like this class is kind of giving people a idea of what it takes to actually start and build a business. Like if you're wonderful at baking pies this is actually the example in the textbook If you're wonderful at baking pies, all your friends tell you, oh, you should bake pies. Then there's like a potluck at work so you bake a pie for it. Everyone there's like, oh, who made this pie?
Speaker 2:I would pay 10 bucks for a slice of this pie. I would pay 10 bucks for a slice of this pie. That just means you're good at baking pies. That doesn't mean you are good at the business of owning a bakery that sells pies. You don't know necessarily where to put that place, where the location should be. You don't know how to market it, what colors it should be, how much a pie should cost, how many you should make, where to buy ingredients to build in bulk. I mean, there's a lot of things to being a business. What about employees setting schedules? Right Insurance Do you even need insurance?
Speaker 3:for a pie shop Payroll.
Speaker 2:Payroll? Oh yeah, of course, payroll. Where am I thinking, sitting here? There's all these things that go into it. But, like, the vast majority of people are like, oh, everybody says I'm good at making pies, just make pies, I. That's kind of the idea, right, is? It's not just? And that's the idea of the class, right? It's just because you're really good at doing makeup doesn't mean you should be like in the makeup artist business. It might be more to it than just this practice of doing the makeup. Right, same with, like, you know, the legal profession. There's a lot of great lawyers who don't have their own law firms. They're really good at being the lawyer. They don't want to manage the employees. They don't want to decide if we're taking Monday off or Wednesday off for Abraham Lincoln's birthday, right, things like that, right. And so they don't want to deal with it and hey, more power to them. I get that. There's a lot of lawyers who just want to do the law job and go home.
Speaker 1:It's definitely a skillset to be running a business. Yeah, I don't care what what business it is.
Speaker 2:There's a difference.
Speaker 1:There's a big time difference.
Speaker 2:There's a big difference between the salesperson at Tile Designs, right, and what if it's an employee who's just a salesman? And what you're doing every day.
Speaker 3:Oh, banging my head against the wall.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:So then did the educational part of you going and teaching classes is that I know you do like public speaking. How did that come about, and are you getting paid for it now?
Speaker 2:This is. I mean it's for fun. It's like the legal job is like vicious and mean. There's a lot of arguing and fighting and I'm not all vicious, all mean all the time, believe it or not. And so these are in my mind. These are me finding creative outlets for the majority of my personality, which is not a litigator right, the litigate I am. The job is one piece of who I am. For most people it's like the major piece of who they are. I think maybe I'm happy as an attorney because it's not the major piece of who I am. Like it is how I make my money. It's what I do for a living. I'm happy to offer advice and help people out when I can and do things like this. But no, I mean the speaking stuff is just basically for fun. I referenced the One Future Coachella Valley gig. There was no payment or anything for that. I didn't even ask.
Speaker 3:But what are you speaking about?
Speaker 2:Usually it's. What am I speaking about right now? My experience, how I got to where I am.
Speaker 3:So I'm not going to get billed for this.
Speaker 2:Oh no, you're getting billed, so I'm not going to get billed for this. Oh no, you're getting billed. Ah shit, no, you're not getting billed for this. You're not getting billed for this right. But if all of a sudden you start firing off questions about your business and how?
Speaker 1:do I get paid on this project and all of a sudden the cameras turn off and you're taking notes and stuff, like, yeah, it's going to be a little bit different, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, I mean, I do talk, I do some of the events for the I'm going to forget this the Women's Entrepreneur Program, the iHub I know I'm messing it up, oh yeah, and they offer me a stipend or whatever. I just donate it back. Nice, right, it's just I don't know, I don't really do it for money. Now, if there was a bigger gig there have been some kind of bigger events that have come talking yeah, then I, like you know, of course I put a little price tag on it, but no one's really paid me any big money to do it. Or when they have, I've just, I've just decided to donate it back.
Speaker 3:So far Just feed me lunch.
Speaker 1:What about the auctioneering? I hear that might be the next career path for you. What the hell.
Speaker 3:All right.
Speaker 2:You. I do get paid for the professor gig, but I make less money. One new client retainer just the initial retainer deposit is larger than what I make for a whole semester of teaching that one class. So that is not you know that's not, it's just I'm giving, it's not. You know what I feel like on one part. I'm like giving back?
Speaker 2:No, and it's giving back for sure, but on another way they give back to me, like it kind of does keep me young and stuff Keeps like when my kids talk about like you know the.
Speaker 3:Riz or whatever Like they know daddy's the Rizzler, they know what's up. Right, like that's just the way it is right, bro. What's up bro? No, no, bro's our word.
Speaker 2:Like I never called anything bad Ohio.
Speaker 1:Like my kids straight up use Ohio to mean like that's bad. What does Mason say? Mason said I got way too many. I can't keep up. I can't, I don't know who cares, but all I know is that's cap probably oh yeah, yeah, yeah, cap, no, cap, yeah.
Speaker 2:And the funny thing is, cap is a three-letter word for a three-letter word, yeah, which is a lie yeah, it's not like it's shortened, yeah and I don't. And it's not like when you said like no lie, no lie didn't sound like bad, like you just said no lie. Now it's like no cap, anyways, whatever, anyways, whatever.
Speaker 3:See the gray hairs there's another one poking out. We're the same generation. Our generation's always better than the others.
Speaker 2:That's right, we can be the old man on the lawn now and tell these kids they don't know, yeah, it keeps me young for the auctions. Right, that's right.
Speaker 3:That's where you're going next.
Speaker 2:What are?
Speaker 3:you auctioning?
Speaker 2:Okay, the schools, and I'm the auctioneer because that lovely lady I chased. So the elementary school.
Speaker 2:She's part of that, the elementary school had a guy that was an actual auctioneer for a living and his I think it was his grandson was a student at the elementary school and he was awesome. He was an actual auctioneer, like 100% for a living auctioneer. And then his family moved, I think, to Arizona, but they moved out of state, out of the area. And then his family moved, I think, to Arizona, but they moved out of state, out of the area. And then the next year they had like someone from I don't remember exactly where be the auctioneer, but it just wasn't the same vibe. It wasn't someone who was upbeat, it was just kind of like a hey, come on, we're raising money for kids. But it had like a little bit of a stiff delivery. She kind of said, oh, my husband could do that, and then no one told me about it until it was so close to the event that I wouldn't feel like I could back out without being a complete jerk, oh wow.
Speaker 2:And so next thing I know I mean like this, right, if you're watching this to try to get some knowledge, right I went to YouTube like how to be an auctioneer kind of thing. I started to YouTube like how to be an auctioneer kind of thing. I started auctioning off eggs to my kids in the morning. I would tell them just say you want more. I know you don't want nine eggs, but I need you to keep it going.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:I got one egg. I need two eggs, and that kind of thing, and so I started doing that and then started for Washington Charter, the local elementary school. My kids were students there, and so then it next year um, by the way went really well. The washington charter mom gang, the mom squad that puts this event on, they have it dialed in. It's important to point out like I just get to show up and do the fun stuff the microphone mc.
Speaker 2:Like. The event is beautiful, the locations are always nice, the themes are great, like shout out the washington charter, moms, like they, they have it dialed in and then I get to run and do a, put on a show and a great event, and then people bid more because they're feeling good, right.
Speaker 3:So and it kind of all reflects positively. That's the best, that's what you need to do.
Speaker 2:They give them alcohol.
Speaker 1:I do not give them alcohol, that's how you raise money right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there is a but. So yeah, that went well. Next thing I know I was doing the middle school, Then I was doing I think I'd done the high school a couple of years and then I did a district auction and then I think someone was like, hey, are there any, even elementary, middle, high school, the district? I'm like, eh yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's maybe a second career. Huh, I did dial that back a little bit. No second career. No second career.
Speaker 2:And it's fun to raise money for the schools. It's fun to do it for the kids. It's easy to guilt people like we're doing it for the kids, you know. And then you know also because I want to plug some of the more important parts than just me standing there getting bids. There's a lot of people in the community that go out of their way to get auction items and that's also a big, huge piece of it. And, like again, I get get to stand up there. Sometimes I get to stand up there with autographed shoes from carlos alcaraz, like the number one tennis player now three, I think, in the world that he wore at the bnp just two days before, like with a photo of him autographing them like oh my god.
Speaker 2:And it's like I mean, this is two days. They're like the shoes still smell bad, like they're right off the court, right, and that's because there are people who are going out and making that happen, right. There's also like trips. There's incredible trips to like.
Speaker 2:New York to see like a Broadway show or like even braces for your kid's teeth Right, and these things are donated by, like, local businesses and other supporters and again, I get a lot of credit because I get to stand there and auction them off. But if it wasn't for those people going and collecting these great items, then there wouldn't be anything for me to have people bid on. So I think it's important that I'm just the singer without this band back here.
Speaker 1:I need this band back here. You're just the diva on the mic.
Speaker 2:Kendrick Lamar at the Super Bowl. He's just a rapper that, generally speaking, stands in one spot. If it's not for all those other people on the red, white and blue, I don't know how exciting that performance is yeah, but those bell bottoms were pretty fucking dope look on him, I get it on him. I don't see it on, like anybody who's normal.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry unless he's gonna start singing some Bobby Valentino style. We ain't going back there.
Speaker 2:I think there's some things that are good on celebs that the rest of us will look silly in, and I think that's that category. How about the Grand National though? That car, let's get Okay. How about the Grand National though? What the hell. That car, that car. Oh, let's get that car. You keep the jeans, I'll take the car. I don't know.
Speaker 3:I still kind of want a Mustang or an old Camaro Okay, or a fastback.
Speaker 2:Nothing wrong with either of those.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, speaking of cars.
Speaker 1:Uh-oh chasing the girl.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what's funny? I don't know. I'm sure I don't. I really don't have the answer to that question. Um, when I was a little kid I was like hot wheels in both hands and like white knuckle, like gripping tightly, hot wheels. Uh, I had a lot of hot wheels. I had like the little car wash thing, a little place to race them. I was always really into hot wheels. Yeah, I never got into like nCAR or car racing F1. I've never really been any of that stuff. I just always liked street cars. Grew up in LA by the beach. You go down there like on the weekends and you'd see like all kinds of you know what I like to call like a modern, like a current car that's lowered or on rims, and then right next to it you might see like something older, like one of the Mustangs you're talking about or like Impalas, anything like that.
Speaker 2:So LA car culture is kind of part of everything, right, and so I don't have the answer. I kind of think I've always been into the cars. It's in your blood, I don't know. It's in my blood. My parents were into cars so I think maybe that's part of it. I mean, my parents kind of drove once. They got it rolling, if you will.
Speaker 3:I just think short people like to go fast, so I just give me that wheel.
Speaker 2:I drive the speed limit. I just like to go fast from zero to the speed limit you should see Bobby now in his Tesla. Jesus Christ, those Teslas are crazy, though it's all torque, all the time, like an airplane you have like the platter with the craziest, fast ones. That's the.
Speaker 1:Y. It's just a performance, but it gets the job done, man. Oh no, those are fast Dude.
Speaker 3:I literally feel sick, like I'm going to throw up. Yeah you got to get used to it.
Speaker 2:And then I'm like constantly I into the whole Tesla thing and yeah, so yeah, he's always showing off all the cool things. My mom has a S, the big sedan, yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And she likes it a lot. But I think she likes it mostly because she doesn't have to go to the gas station.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's what.
Speaker 2:I Absolutely. You have a charger at home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's the key.
Speaker 2:That's the key freaking out like oh, you know, like you gotta check though, you gotta check your levels, you gotta check your. You can do so much of it from your phone, though now, like I mean, that's also one of the things I like about it, you know, you can just you're you can stay on top of it.
Speaker 3:Okay, here's a fun fact about teslas, and I don't know, maybe you know, maybe this is stupid. Did you know the red ones cost less money I did not know that.
Speaker 2:I know my mom's is red, but I didn't know.
Speaker 3:It cost less money they're less money than all the others. What?
Speaker 2:I like about them is that you can change the sound effect when you like, lock the doors and so, like my buddies, makes the like whoop, whoop from.
Speaker 1:Like the 90s, that's so cool every time he does it. I like laugh, I like get a kick out of it and you can change the horn, you can change the I've seen some of the videos. Yeah, those things are looking ridiculous.
Speaker 2:I'd like to know why they're banned.
Speaker 1:You know why they're banned? Because they'll destroy the EV market here if they were released. Because they're like $10,000 and they're better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I get that, but generally speaking, the United States is all about competition, so at some point, if we let them in here, I got a feeling that things will instantly.
Speaker 1:You would think. You would think I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's a bad sign whenever we keep competition out.
Speaker 1:I think that's a bad sign. What happened to free trade man? What happened?
Speaker 2:to free trade. Oh, free trade. Now we're going a whole different route.
Speaker 1:The politics we won't want that many views.
Speaker 2:We don't want that many views. We don't want that many comments.
Speaker 1:No we don't want the bots coming after us.
Speaker 2:We don't want that many comments, right.
Speaker 1:So we always like to kind of get your advice to kids that maybe are in high school or college and they're thinking about hey, maybe law I'm good at, I think I want to go into law.
Speaker 2:I want to go to law school. That's not it.
Speaker 2:That's not a prerequisite it's reading no, no, it's not it. It's not it. It's just because arguing is a tiny, tiny part of our job. It's a big piece of what we do in law TV shows Right, but if you notice there's no law reality show, it's because the reality of the law game is not what the like TV show of the law game is. Right, like those of you who love suits, the entire premise of the show is like illegal, right? There's a guy who doesn't have a law degree but he has a great memory and he's practicing law illegal in so many ways.
Speaker 2:Never doesn't mean it's not a good show, Not trying to knock the show, Just saying it's just not realistic to the real world or whatever right. So I mean, I don't know, let's see Well we can take it another way.
Speaker 3:What are the pros and cons, if there is?
Speaker 2:Well, no, so let me go back. So let me at least double up. If I'm going to say that you shouldn't be argumentative, then what should you be good at? Problem solving? Right, empathy, especially if you have like. If you have two friends that are like in an argument about something, can you step in the middle and help them put that problem to bed? Right, I had a nice sweatshirt and my buddy spilled his beer on it and ruined the sweatshirt. You know he doesn't care. He didn't say he was sorry whatever. And and cared and say you're sorry whatever. And now I'm mad about it. Go to the friend hey, you didn't even say you're sorry, it was a party. Relax, who needs to apologize? Let it go. And now these guys aren't talking or something. Can you insert yourself in the middle without making either of them hate you necessarily?
Speaker 2:and get them to put their beef to rest. And obviously I use like a silly example of that. But like, imagine one friend loaned another friend like $1,000. Oh yeah, and then the second friend hasn't paid it back but went out and bought some Louis Vuitton sneakers or something, right. So now that friend who's like where's my $1,000? They're in your sneakers, or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that kind of thing. Can you insert yourself in there and diffuse that and help them put that problem to bed? Now, that doesn't mean you're going to be an excellent lawyer, but I think that's a better sign of a high quality attorney than I like to argue all the time.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I don't. So it's funny that you said that, because when I think of a lawyer I don't necessarily think of empathy. You know what I mean. So that's kind of interesting to hear.
Speaker 2:But like, from that viewpoint? Yeah, I guess. So you don't think of it because you've been trained and most lawyers like to use the idea that fear to sell legal services Like I'll fight for you, or what are you going to do when the government comes for you and you're not ready? What are you going to do when such and such happens and you're not ready, like when you could die at any moment and your kids are going to pay all those taxes and you need to get a will, you need to get a trust done, like all those kinds of things. Right, the number one way to sell legal services is to scare you into thinking you need them. Fear like anything else, and so that's why you automatically think of lawyer as someone who's like fighting on your behalf or aggressive or like bulldog phrasing Right, but I think again, that's just. That's just stereotypes.
Speaker 3:Or it could be that we just finished watching the OJ thing.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:That's a different ballgame.
Speaker 1:Those guys work. Criminal law is completely different Wow. Criminal law is very different, that's a difference, Especially a high profile case like that. You got the best in the world going at it, right. Well, I mean.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you right now that part doesn't matter. I don't know if the guys or gals I'm going against are the best or worst in the world. I know that I'm always trying to put my best foot forward, right for OJ Simpson, I mean. They know it's on TV and stuff, so of course they're trying their extra hardest. But I imagine there's no such thing as extra hardest. Like these guys don't have other cases that they're okay with losing. Like there's not a case in my file, even the ones that are worth less money. Let's say, so to speak, that I'm like okay with rolling over and losing on.
Speaker 3:Right. So a lawyer has to be competitive.
Speaker 2:It's not about being competitive. If I know I have a losing, think about poker. Right, if I have a crappy, if I have a losing hand, the longer I stay in I'm not doing anything smart. That's dumb. So it's about being able to assess what your position is relative to someone else's position. You know there's a. You know you want me to sound really smart, we'll use the phrase BATNA. You have to always remember what your BATNA alternative to a negotiated agreement, right. So if I can negotiate with you and reach an agreement, okay, that's right on the surface.
Speaker 2:If I can't, what are my options? If those options are good, right. Like this gas price is too expensive, right. Can I negotiate with a, you know, unical 76 station? I cannot. So what's my best alternative? I can go to the gas station down the street. I can go to the Arco or the whatever. That's a little less expensive. Now if I have no gas like none, none, and I can't make it to the next gas station, my best alternative is to run out of gas halfway to the next gas station and then push. Then I might as well pay this gas. You see what I mean. So it's all about knowing your position and where you are relative to your alternatives.
Speaker 3:Absolutely Okay. So how do you do that? When you have an argument with your wife, Are you using the BATNA approach?
Speaker 2:I mean it could work right when you argue with your wife, when you, Wow, that was funny. I need to know if she's watching this or not.
Speaker 3:To answer the question Nobody's going to watch this. Nobody's going to watch this. Look, no trade secrets here.
Speaker 2:When you're arguing with an idiot, right? No, I'm just kidding. Look, when you're arguing with your wife, you're not getting paid, right, so you just surrender. I try to tell everybody you know. What happens is you live with the person and you start to mix up opinion, like I have an opinion, sure, as opposed to, I actually care about this and I've learned at a very early, probably in the wedding planning stage, that there's a lot of things I have an opinion on, like what colors and where and what time. But there's only a couple of things I care about, like what flavors the cake, right? So for me, did I go to the cake tasting? You bet I did.
Speaker 2:I spoke up. I don't want any fruit in my cake. I had a white cake with chocolate ribbon. I wanted my cake to taste good. I didn't care that it wasn't traditional wedding cake. I'm not a traditional guy, so to speak. It's fine, right, but I don't remember exactly what color my tie was. It was like a soft peach. I'm sure I'm getting this wrong, wrong. Yeah, it was like a very, very light pink with a little bit of gold coloring to it. I don't know, I don't, I didn't pick it, I didn't care. So that's. I try to use that in all my arguments, and so if it's something I care about, I argue for it, and if there's something I don't care about, I just try to go.
Speaker 1:Let it go path of least resistance.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, that's almost about our time, man there's no such thing as about our time here.
Speaker 3:What about those after the show clips?
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, but we want our audience to be able to kind of reach out to you if they've got questions for you and, you know, kind of be able to maybe if they need some law services. Where would they do that? Where would they find you?
Speaker 2:Let's see. You can find me on all the social medias, of course, like Instagram, that's probably the most popular one. To find me on Afsar Law Group, you can just hit me up at Afsar Law Group. Afsarlawcom is the website. There you can find the phone number and the email address and all that stuff. And if you mentioned you saw me on this episode I will double the fees. No, I'll bill you and then I'll waive the fee.
Speaker 2:And then I'll waive it, and then I'll waive it, okay, and this is the tip you take from that to all the viewers, right?
Speaker 2:Write it off, listen, listen to all the viewers, not just write it off. Hold on, don't bill people. And then they're like see, I hooked them up, I gave it to them for free. Don't do that. Instead, put a bill together and cross out the number at the bottom and put zero, so the person sees the value that they're getting for free. Smart, so if I just tell you you're going to call me and it's going to be no charge, you just assume that I've said I'm going to do it for free. You're just going to come in. Oh, this is free.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:I'm going to bill it to Fina and she's going to take care of it for you. That's the kind of person she is, but guess what? That number is going to be zero. That she's taking care of for you.
Speaker 3:I have empathy, okay.
Speaker 2:so one last thing, and I'm like thank God because this is stuff that I don't think about is to keep my corporate binder up to date.
Speaker 1:She's all about that corporate binder man that's always stuck with me, all about it. We're going to buy a car, all about it.
Speaker 2:All about it, man. Listen, if you take the time to form a corporation to protect your personal assets from your business assets which is a smart thing to do Damn. To protect your personal assets from your business assets which is a smart thing to do Damn right. And then you fail to treat it with the proper formalities, you don't treat it like a separate entity. You mix your money and its money. You mix your problems and its problems. You mix your bills and its bills. You mix your money and its money. Then you lose those protections. But by doing what you just talked about, doing the annual update, which you're doing, a tax return for it anyway. So just again, same kind of thing. You're basically reinforcing the wall that separates your personal assets from your business assets, which is hopefully never going to be tested, but should it ever be tested, you want it to be as strong as possible.
Speaker 3:Well, I remember you saying like that's the first thing they're going to ask you for it is. So that's always stuck with me and I just want to thank you for that.
Speaker 2:It absolutely is, and if you don't know what we're talking about, feel free to call me and ask me. I'm happy to explain it further. No real talk. I know that a lot of the point of your podcast is to kind of get the word out to people who maybe aren't exposed to this type of information all the time. Most people are very intimidated by lawyers. I try not to be that way, right, and so if you have questions, if you're friends with these two, if you're just watching right now, reach out Totally accessible.
Speaker 1:See, that's why we had him on Titan of industry. Like I said, this guy's the best. He's kept us out of a multitude of lawsuits, so Jesus, I don't know if I've done that much.
Speaker 2:Looking at you, Fina. Looking at you.
Speaker 1:So if you found some value today, you guys know the routine Like, subscribe and share and we'll see you guys next time.
Speaker 3:Thank you.